It's links-style North vs. traditional, tree-lined South at Talking Stick

By Rebecca Larsen,
Contributor

PHOENIX - When Talking Stick Golf Club opened in 1997, it was unique in a lot of ways. After all, the courses at Talking Stick were the first big-name designer, big-ticket courses built on Native American land in Arizona.

Right from the start, the Talking Stick courses, owned by the Salt River Pima Maricopa Indian Community, won acclaim for their sleek layouts done by Ben Crenshaw and Bill Coore and their smoothly manicured fairways and greens. The club also had a location in the heart of mostly undeveloped desert, even though it was close to central Scottsdale.

Fairly quickly, other Indian courses have come along and stolen some of the buzz. We-Ko-Pa, the two Whirlwind courses at Wildhorse Pass, and Apache Stronghold have gotten a lot of press.

But Talking Stick remains a superb place to play with two courses that are very unusual for the Phoenix area.

"There's a lot more competition now," says Scott Heideman, the director of golf at Talking Stick. "Obviously, the market conditions have changed. But most of those other courses are so far away from us, they don't take much of our business. We have the best location. We've won honors from GolfWeek and Golf Magazine. And we have a significant following from our repeat customer base.

"Obviously, everyone's interested in the new kid on the block. But our rounds have not been affected."

Although the pace of new course building has slowed recently, opening of courses on reservations has continued, partly fueled by casino income. The reservations, after all, own lots of open land and also have water rights that other owners don't have in the Phoenix area. "Most courses built on non-reservation land make their money on selling the real estate surrounding them," Heideman says.

And that brings us to why golfers really love to play those reservation fairways. They're surrounded by awe-inspiring views of craggy peaks and desert landscape. No condos, no tract houses, no shopping centers, and not a lot of traffic. There are casinos, of course, and now they're building hotels. Talking Stick doesn't have a hotel nor does We-Ko-Pa in Fountain Hills. But We-Ko-Pa is talking about adding a hotel plus another golf course. "I expect in three to four years we might have a resort, too," says Heideman.

Maybe no hotel yet, but Talking Stick does have two courses - the North and the South. The name for the golf club, by the way, comes from the traditional Salt River Pima calendar stick used to keep track of major events).

When commissioned to lay out Talking Stick, the designers were told to create two very different courses. They weren't working with the naturally rugged foothills and saguaro forests found on some reservations in Arizona. The site was originally wide and flat and it remains that way for the most part on both courses. But somehow Crenshaw and Coore managed to create something super without moving a lot of earth around.

Both courses have a minimalist style-not a lot of bulldozing done during construction.

"They told me that they don't move a lot of dirt around," says Heideman, referring to Coore and Crenshaw, "and that you don't need to move dirt to create a great golf hole. By not moving all that earth, the North and South look as if they've been there for years and years. They do not seem manufactured, contrived and created."

The North Course seems to have a links style due to its deep bunkers and the opportunities to bump and run your ball onto large greens. The North has a more treeless and waterless landscape but with more strategic options and more risk-reward holes. Many golf design aficionados prefer the North.

Just to be different, I played the South, often labeled "tree-lined and traditional," a deadly sounding characterization in Phoenix, which prides itself on being the world capital of desert-target golf with millions of death-defying gullies to carry. Some 4,500 cottonwoods, eucalyptus and sycamores were planted along the fairways at the South.

Despite that planting project, it turns out, the South, a par-71 that plays at 6,833 yards from the back, retained its minimalist feel. "The greens are smaller and more elevated than the North," says Heideman. "About the only thing you can do is flop the ball onto the greens. It's also a straightforward course. You have to hit your ball from point A to point B and then to the green."

Although its open fairways have that wide-open style, it has a tougher slope and rating than its sister course, the North.

One fun hole at the start is the par-4 No. 4 (327 yards from the back tees and 288 from the forward) that bears the name "Right Is Right." Obviously, you do want to head for the right side of the big, wide fairway here, but not too right where you could drift into the trees. The real trick is to avoid a big bunker smack-dab in the middle of the fairway.

The par-4 No. 5, nicknamed "Fortress" (471 yards from the back tees and 402 from the forward), is more daunting. Here going right is definitely wrong because of a string of bunkers to the right of the fairway. The "fortress" turns out to be the green surrounded by bunkers. This is a tough green to reach in two shots.

The strength of this course hits you late on the back nine. No. 14 is a par-5 (541 yards from the back and 489 from the forward) with a giant waste bunker like a writhing snake that turns the fairway into two parts lengthwise. No. 15 is a par-4 (443 yards from the back and 497 from the forward) that's tough uphill all the way while it keeps curling around tricky bunkers. "You feel like you're coming out of chute with all that bunkering," says Heideman.

No. 16, a par-5 (548 yards from the back and 497 from the forward) has water down the right side of the fairway but also has a creek to cross on your second shot. There's more water to face on the par-3 17th and the finishing hole.

Although Heideman says he loves the North the best, eight out of 10 of his staff members prefer the South. It's your choice.

Places to visit

Visit the Salt River Pima casino at Talking Stick, known as Casino Arizona, just to see the new sports bar even if you don't care to gamble. The casino was literally built around the sports bar which has 16 plasma-screen TVs. The bar area will play host to three weekend sports-talk shows done by local radio personalities. If you are a player, the casino has 532 slot machines, 38 blackjack tables, 46 poker tables and keno and off-track betting lounges.

Other courses to play

The other Native American courses mentioned above are:

We-Ko-Pa, designed by Scott Miller, is located in Fountain Hills, just east of Scottsdale; phone, (480) 836-9000.

Apache Stronghold, designed by Tom Doak, is located in Globe, 100 miles east of Phoenix; phone, (928) 425-7800.

Whirlwind Golf Club in Chandler, with two courses designed by Gary Panks, is located at the Sheraton Wild Horse Pass Resort, south of Phoenix; phone, (480) 940-1500.

Where to stay

What's great about Talking Stick is how close it is to central Scottsdale where there are a host of motels and restaurant choices. Consider the Holiday Inn Sunspree at 7601 E. Indian Bend Road; phone, (480) 991-2400. There's also the Scottsdale Plaza Resort at Scottsdale Road and Indian Bend; phone, (480) 948-5000.

Favorite places to eat

Don & Charlie's is a Scottsdale favorite with ex-Chicagoans because it's a branch of restaurants located in The Windy City. The restaurant is at 7501 E. Camelback Road; phone, (480) 990-0900. Also try Buster's Bar and Grill at 8320 N. Hayden Road; phone, (480) 451-3615.

February 2, 2004

Rebecca Larsen is a former features and assistant features editor for the Marin Independent Journal, a medium-sized daily paper located north of San Francisco. She has also worked for the Milwaukee Journal and for a Chicago public relations firm. She has a bachelor's in journalism from Northwestern University and a master's from the University of California at Berkeley.

Any opinions expressed above are those of the writer and do not necessarily represent the views of the management.